This Week in Fiction

Joyce Carol Oates on Embedded Memories

乔伊斯·卡罗尔·欧茨谈嵌入记忆
The author discusses her story “Lost Child.”
作者讨论她的短篇小说《走失的孩子》。
September 13, 2026
Joyce Carol Oates on Embedded Memories
Source photograph by Renate Aller

Your story “Lost Child” is a story within a story: a middle-aged woman is telling a friend about an incident in her childhood, which is narrated, for us, more or less in the voice of the child she was. Why did you choose to frame the story in that way? What does it add for us to see the narrative through the eyes of both the child, Kit, and the adult, Katherine?

你的小说《走失的孩子》是一个故事套故事的结构:一位中年女性正在向一位朋友讲述她童年时的一件事,而这件事对我们读者来说,或多或少是以她当年那个孩子的口吻叙述的。你为什么选择用这种方式来框定这个故事?让我们同时透过孩子基特和成年人凯瑟琳的视角来看这段叙述,会增添什么?

I am intrigued by stories that are so deeply imprinted in the memory and carry such an emotional charge that they have to be framed as stories “told to” someone else—as if the original event were too raw to confront head on in a conventional narrative. Classic stories in this tradition are Henry James’s “The Turn of the Screw,” Joseph Conrad’s “Heart of Darkness,” and Mary Shelley’s “Frankenstein,” which is even farther removed, as an epistolary novel.

我对那些深深烙印在记忆中、带有强烈情感冲击的故事很感兴趣,它们必须被框定为“讲给”别人听的故事——仿佛原始事件太过刺痛,无法在常规叙事中正面直视。这一传统中的经典作品有亨利·詹姆斯的《螺丝在拧紧》、约瑟夫·康拉德的《黑暗的心》,以及玛丽·雪莱的《弗兰肯斯坦》,后者作为书信体小说,距离拉得更远。

You mentioned to me that the story drew on something that happened in your own childhood which was less dramatic but has always stayed with you. Can you describe that and why it was so memorable?

你曾向我提到,这个故事取材于你自己童年发生的一件事,那件事没那么戏剧化,但一直伴随着你。你能描述一下那件事吗?为什么它如此难忘?

Yes, this incident is so embedded in my memory that I dream about it—being lost or abandoned in a public place, through some sort of accident. When I was about five years old, with my mother, I inadvertently got into an elevator that I’d thought she was entering, too, but the circumstances were crowded and confused—my mother hadn’t seen where I had gone—and somehow I wound up on a high floor of a busy department store. Eventually, after much trauma and childish tears, we were reunited. But being abandoned and afraid, especially in a foreign city, remains one of my recurring dreams.

是的,这件事深深嵌入我的记忆,以至于我至今还会梦到它——因为某种意外,在一个公共场所走失或被遗弃。我大约五岁的时候,和母亲在一起,我不经意间走进了一部电梯,我以为她也跟着进来了,但当时人群拥挤、情况混乱——母亲没有看到我去了哪里——不知怎的,我最后到了一家繁忙百货商店的高楼层。最终,在经历了巨大的创伤和孩子的眼泪之后,我们团聚了。但那种被遗弃和恐惧的感觉,尤其是在一个陌生的城市里,至今仍是我反复出现的梦境之一。

Did you have the story mapped out before you started writing? Did you know what Kit’s father was going to do that day? Do you think that the father knew what he was going to do?

你在开始写作之前,是否已经把故事规划好了?你知道基特的父亲那天打算做什么吗?你觉得那位父亲自己知道他打算做什么吗?

Yes, I imagine my stories in my head, often while running or walking, before I begin writing. The process is very visual, cinematic, for me. I see an actual scene. Transposing this scene into language is the exciting challenge, since the scene has no narrative context in my envisioning of it.

是的,我在开始写作之前,常常在跑步或走路时就在脑海中想象我的故事。这个过程对我来说非常视觉化、电影化。我看到一个真实的场景。把这个场景转化为语言是令人兴奋的挑战,因为在我最初的想象中,这个场景并没有叙事语境。

In this case, there are two stories, one embedded in the other. So, there are two time sequences—one fifty years ago, the other happening right now.

在这个故事里,有两个故事,一个嵌在另一个里面。所以,有两条时间线——一条在五十年前,另一条正在当下发生。

Kit is a very young child, but at the same time a very perceptive one. She understands instinctively what will please or displease her father. She knows when his anger is directed at her and when it isn’t. How has she developed this heightened sensitivity so young?

基特是一个非常年幼的孩子,但同时也是一个非常敏锐的孩子。她本能地理解什么会取悦或惹恼她的父亲。她知道父亲的怒火什么时候是针对她的,什么时候不是。她这么小的年纪,是如何发展出这种高度敏感的?

As the child of a certain kind of father and—we presume—a more sensitive mother, who has learned how to traverse the minefield of a difficult relationship, Kit would naturally be watchful, wary. I think that most children are highly sensitive to their parents’ moods.

作为某种特定类型的父亲的女儿,以及——我们推测——一位更为敏感的母亲的孩子,基特已经学会了如何穿越一段艰难关系中的雷区,她自然会保持警觉和谨慎。我认为大多数孩子对父母的情绪都非常敏感。

Katherine seems to have done well in life, to have had a successful career as a curator of art, to have married, and to have found a community. How do you think that frightened little girl, who suffered the trauma of losing both parents in one day—never fully knowing how or why—survived and succeeded in living a so-called normal life?

凯瑟琳似乎在生活中过得不错,拥有成功的艺术策展人职业生涯,结了婚,也找到了自己的社群。你认为那个在一天之内失去双亲——而且永远无法完全知道事情是如何发生、为什么发生——饱受创伤的惊恐小女孩,是如何幸存下来,并成功过上了所谓正常的生活的?

Actually, I think we’d find that many of our friends and acquaintances, should we ever be allowed to share their deepest memories, probably had similarly upsetting episodes in childhood. Not necessarily, of course, as distressing as what happens to Kit but other events in which they felt helpless or witnessed their parents being helpless.

实际上,我认为我们会发现,如果我们有机会分享朋友和熟人最深处的记忆,他们中的许多人很可能在童年也有过类似的令人不安的经历。当然,不一定像基特遭遇的那样令人痛苦,但也会有其他让他们感到无助、或目睹父母无助的事件。

The person of my acquaintance who has endured the most horrific shocks in her life presents a smiling, unwavering cheeriness in public and even with most friends in private. She never—ever—complains or, indeed, even frowns, looks sad. We all present a persona to the world that allows us to navigate it. I think of those people as “the walking wounded”—they are likely to be overachievers, high-energy, uncomplaining, and in control. Like Katherine.

我认识的人当中,有一位在生活中承受了最可怕打击的人,在公共场合、甚至在私下与大多数朋友相处时,都展现出一种微笑的、始终如一的开朗。她从不——从不——抱怨,甚至从不皱眉,从不显得悲伤。我们都会向世界呈现一个人格面具,以便在其中穿行。我把这些人看作“行走的伤员”——他们往往是成就超群的人,精力充沛,从不抱怨,一切尽在掌控。就像凯瑟琳。

There is a third voice in the story—that of the friend to whom Katherine is recounting her sad past. This woman—the only first-person voice—is a casual friend, not a close confidante; she is also not someone who feels or expresses a lot of emotion. Why do you think Katherine chose her for these revelations?

故事中还有第三个声音——凯瑟琳向她讲述悲伤过往的那位朋友。这个女人——唯一的第一人称声音——是一个普通朋友,不是亲密的知己;她也不是一个会感受或表达很多情感的人。你认为凯瑟琳为什么选择她来倾诉这些?

One of the discoveries of late middle age and beyond is that people we’ve known socially may sometimes reveal facets of themselves that we hadn’t suspected. As soon as a woman becomes a widow, for instance, she will discover the company of other widows, or widowers—a realignment of social priorities. Someone you did not know well may suddenly emerge and build a new connection. Of course, this could be a new romance, too, but the forging of new emotional attachments and intimacies in friendship is probably less noticed, or explored, even as it is more frequent and, to my mind, more interesting than conventional romance.

人到中晚年后的一大发现是,我们在社交场合认识的人,有时会展现出我们未曾料想到的侧面。比如,一个女人一旦成为寡妇,她就会发现其他寡妇或鳏夫的陪伴——这是一种社交优先级的重新排列。一个你不太了解的人可能会突然出现,建立起新的联系。当然,这也可能是一段新的恋情,但在友谊中锻造新的情感依恋和亲密关系,虽然可能更少被注意或探讨,却更为常见,而且在我看来,比常规的浪漫更有意思。

You said, when we discussed “The Frenzy,” your last story in The New Yorker, “I am most powerfully drawn to places, settings. I want to see, hear, smell, ‘feel’ the atmosphere of a place.” Did this story begin with the hospital and its elevator?

你曾说,在我们讨论你上一篇发表在《纽约客》上的小说《狂乱》时,“我最被地方、场景所吸引。我想看到、听到、闻到、‘感受’一个地方的氛围。”这个故事是从医院和它的电梯开始的吗?

Yes, this story began in the elevator and just outside the elevator, with a child’s limited vision among a confusing crowd of adult legs. In a sense, as in a circle of Hell, the poor child is still there, waiting even now. ♦

是的,这个故事始于电梯里和电梯外,一个孩子有限的视野,周围是令人困惑的成人腿部的拥挤人群。从某种意义上说,就像在地狱的一环中,那个可怜的孩子仍然在那里,直到现在还在等待。♦

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